Where does the blame lie for the Giants Struggles?

rsdmitch7

New member
A fan since 1958. The owners are responsible without question. Start in the ‘50’s. Lombardi and Landry assistant coaches. Who do we end up with Alli Sherman. Always a defense minded team. All the quarterbacks run for their lives. Ask Simms and Manning. And now Jones. Draft picks: Overall, Mediocre, more busts than not. Had opportunity to draft K Rudolph. No! wait to get him now. This year: Had chance to pick top offensive lineman. So they pick a wide receiver. If you’re quarterback has to run for his life every play, how does he set up to throw the ball?
Just my thoughts
Mitch 46
 
A fan since 1958. The owners are responsible without question. Start in the ‘50’s. Lombardi and Landry assistant coaches. Who do we end up with Alli Sherman. Always a defense minded team. All the quarterbacks run for their lives. Ask Simms and Manning. And now Jones. Draft picks: Overall, Mediocre, more busts than not. Had opportunity to draft K Rudolph. No! wait to get him now. This year: Had chance to pick top offensive lineman. So they pick a wide receiver. If you’re quarterback has to run for his life every play, how does he set up to throw the ball?
Just my thoughts
Mitch 46

Welcome and thank you for posting your comments. What you have seen I have only read about. I never understood why Wellington Mara let Vince Lombardi go to Green Bay until I read Patricia's book. Maybe She could elaborate on the subject. I wonder how many NFL Championships Vince Lombardi would have won with the Giants. I wonder if he was hired maybe we don't have the wilderness years.

As for Phil Simms and Eli Manning I see both as Hall of Fame QBs. Two QBs who like Daniel Jones almost got run out of town in their early years. Daniel Jones has shown some of the same traits as Simms and Manning. He has shown he can be that QB the Giants were looking for.
In Thursday night's game Troy Aikman said on several occasions how impressed he was with Daniel Jones when given some time to throw.
I also think they should stick with Jason Garrett as OC. He and Jones have developed some chemistry which will help Jones going forward. Replacing Garrett with Freddie Kitchens as OC would be a really bad move.

As for our current struggles, we had some bad drafts, bad free agent acquisitions, and lost opportunities which has set us back for years. I just wonder if the Giants have learned from past mistakes. If they have not, they will make them again in the future.

In the "State of the Giants" thread I stated John Mara is the only one who can fix this mess. He's one of best owners in the NFL. He also hates to lose. He needs to decide whether to stay the course or hopefully find that new age Chris Ballard type GM. Have that GM hire his own up and coming Head Coach. Someone with innovative ways to run a team and win! Other teams have done and so can the Giants.
 
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Patricia Traina

Administrator
Staff member
A fan since 1958. The owners are responsible without question. Start in the ‘50’s. Lombardi and Landry assistant coaches. Who do we end up with Alli Sherman. Always a defense minded team. All the quarterbacks run for their lives. Ask Simms and Manning. And now Jones. Draft picks: Overall, Mediocre, more busts than not. Had opportunity to draft K Rudolph. No! wait to get him now. This year: Had chance to pick top offensive lineman. So they pick a wide receiver. If you’re quarterback has to run for his life every play, how does he set up to throw the ball?
Just my thoughts
Mitch 46
Good points Mitch. But there have been good things to happen as well--the 1980s (LT, Banks, Bavaro, et al).
 
Talking about good points, we did win the 1986 and 1990 Super Bowls. Also Jim Fassel got the Giants to 2000 Super Bowl against the Ravens. Not sure any team in 2000 could have beat the Ravens. Their defense was that good. Their defense only allowed 165 points all season. Giants did beat the Randy Moss and Chris Carter Vikings 41-0 in the 2000 NFC Champion game. I think Wellington Mara really enjoyed that win. The Giants won two of greatest Super Bowls of all time in 2007 & 2011. So we had some rally good times! The last 10 years have been really hard to take as a Giants fan. That said we went to 5 Super Bowls and won 4. Not bad at all!
 

Patricia Traina

Administrator
Staff member
Talking about good points, we did win the 1986 and 1990 Super Bowls. Also Jim Fassel got the Giants to 2000 Super Bowl against the Ravens. Not sure any team in 2000 could have beat the Ravens. Their defense was that good. Their defense only allowed 165 points all season. Giants did beat the Randy Moss and Chris Carter Vikings 41-0 in the 2000 NFC Champion game. I think Wellington Mara really enjoyed that win. The Giants won two of greatest Super Bowls of all time in 2007 & 2011. So we had some rally good times! The last 10 years have been really hard to take as a Giants fan. That said we went to 5 Super Bowls and won 4. Not bad at all!
That's a good way of looking at things. I mean I think the late 60s-1970s were still by far the worst period of Giants football ever
 
That's a good way of looking at things. I mean I think the late 60s-1970s were still by far the worst period of Giants football ever
Without question. 1966 had to be the worst year. The loss to the WFT last Thursday was a gut punch, but could you imagine the Giants scoring 41 points and losing a game by 31 points.o_O. Yes it did happen Nov. 27, 1966 WFT 72 and NY Giants 41. Giants season record was 1-12-1 which is the worst season in Giants history.
 

rsdmitch7

New member
Good points Mitch. But there have been good things to happen as well--the 1980s (LT, Banks, Bavaro, et al).
Good things did start to happen when Geo. Young became the GM. Most of it on defense. Simms was from a small college. That's not a knock on him. He built himself into a terrific QB. I remember that he was taking such a beating the first few seasons, he did weight training to bulk up. Bavaro was a complete surprise. At ND he was used mainly as a blocking TE. I don't think they knew he was that good until they started throwing to him out of necessity until the O line came together.
Until Geo. Young the Giants were a mess. If I remember correctly the team was so bad that the NFL front office got involved and got him to go to the Giants. I think he was with Miami at the time and Don Shula was the coach. The team is now back to square one and I don't think the ownership knows how to build a team. Just because you have owned a team for a hundred years doesn't make you knowledgeable. And they have proven that.
Thanks to Everyone
Mitch
 

Patricia Traina

Administrator
Staff member
Good things did start to happen when Geo. Young became the GM. Most of it on defense. Simms was from a small college. That's not a knock on him. He built himself into a terrific QB. I remember that he was taking such a beating the first few seasons, he did weight training to bulk up. Bavaro was a complete surprise. At ND he was used mainly as a blocking TE. I don't think they knew he was that good until they started throwing to him out of necessity until the O line came together.
Until Geo. Young the Giants were a mess. If I remember correctly the team was so bad that the NFL front office got involved and got him to go to the Giants. I think he was with Miami at the time and Don Shula was the coach. The team is now back to square one and I don't think the ownership knows how to build a team. Just because you have owned a team for a hundred years doesn't make you knowledgeable. And they have proven that.
Thanks to Everyone
Mitch
Hi Mitch. The story I uncovered was that the Maras couldn't agree on a GM so Pete Rozelle recommended Young. Young wanted full control over football matters, so Wellington, who had full control, had to agree to that. He did and the rest was history.
 
Hi Mitch. The story I uncovered was that the Maras couldn't agree on a GM so Pete Rozelle recommended Young. Young wanted full control over football matters, so Wellington, who had full control, had to agree to that. He did and the rest was history.
My understanding is that Wellington and his brother Jack each inherited a 50% share of the NY Giants from their father and team founder Tim Mara. In 1965 Wellington's brother Jack passed away. At that time Wellington ran the operations side of the franchise and Jack ran the financial side. Jack's share was inherited by Jack's wife and their two children. Jack's son Tim become very unhappy with the direction of the franchise. In 1978 Willington and Tim's differences finally came to a head. They couldn't agree on a new GM. Pete Rozelle was forced to step in and got Wellington and Tim to accept George Young as GM. George Young was given total control over the operations of the NY Giants. Young hired Ray Perkins as head coach. Perkins hired Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick. In 1991 Tim Mara and his family agreed to sell their 50% interest in the NY Giants to Robert Tisch. After Robert Tisch purchased the 50 interest in the NY Giants, the ownership structure remained the same. Wellington Mara ran the operations and Robert Tisch the financial side of the NY Giants. They obviously consulted on matters relating to the Giants. Hope that helps.
 
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Patricia Traina

Administrator
Staff member
My understanding is that Wellington and his brother Jack each inherited a 50% share of the NY Giants from their father and team founder Tim Mara. In 1965 Wellington's brother Jack passed away. At that time Wellington ran the operations side of the franchise and Jack ran the financial side. Jack's share was inherited by Jack's wife and their two children. Jack's son Tim become very unhappy with the direction of the franchise. In 1978 Willington and Tim's differences finally came to a head. They couldn't agree on a new GM. Pete Rozelle was forced to step in and got Wellington and Tim to accept George Young as GM. George Young was given total control over the operations of the NY Giants. Young hired Ray Perkins as head coach. Perkins hired Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick. In 1991 Tim Mara and his family agreed to sell their 50% interest in the NY Giants to Robert Tisch. After Robert Tisch purchased the 50 interest in the NY Giants, the ownership structure remained the same. Wellington Mara ran the operations and Robert Tisch the financial side of the NY Giants. They obviously consulted on matters relating to the Giants. Hope that helps.
Someone read my book, I see. :)
 
Without question. 1966 had to be the worst year. The loss to the WFT last Thursday was a gut punch, but could you imagine the Giants scoring 41 points and losing a game by 31 points.o_O. Yes it did happen Nov. 27, 1966 WFT 72 and NY Giants 41. Giants season record was 1-12-1 which is the worst season in Giants history.
The Giants1966 record was their worst record in a 14 game season.
In a 16 game season their worst record was in 1983 where they went 3-12-1.

!966 was an interesting year as the Falcons joined the NFL. Their 1st win was against you guessed it the NY Giants 27-10. The win was in the middle of probably the worst three game stretch in Giants history. The prior week they lost to Rams 55-14 and gave up over 500 yards on defense if you can call it that. The game after the loss to Falcons was the 72-41 loss to the WFT. Just think as bad as they were they sold out there 7 games in Yankee Stadium.
 

rsdmitch7

New member
Hi Mitch. The story I uncovered was that the Maras couldn't agree on a GM so Pete Rozelle recommended Young. Young wanted full control over football matters, so Wellington, who had full control, had to agree to that. He did and the rest was history.
Hi Pat; Your correct about the details. I couldn't quite remember exact details. Long time ago. That's why I mentioned the NFL front office. When the main governing body has to step in and make decisions. That speaks everything I have to know about the owners. Me, I'm a die-hard. The fans made the Giant franchise what it is. We were the ones that supported the team through the more bad years than good. The Mara's don't deserve to have such loyalty. But I will continue to be a Giant fan.
Thanks
Mitch
 
Hi Pat; Your correct about the details. I couldn't quite remember exact details. Long time ago. That's why I mentioned the NFL front office. When the main governing body has to step in and make decisions. That speaks everything I have to know about the owners. Me, I'm a die-hard. The fans made the Giant franchise what it is. We were the ones that supported the team through the more bad years than good. The Mara's don't deserve to have such loyalty. But I will continue to be a Giant fan.
Thanks
Mitch
As you probably can tell I am and will also be a die-hard Giants fan. With that said the Giants are a very large business. Just like any other business that sells a product, for the Giants its football and everything that goes with it. Yesterday the customers expressed to the owner that the product is really bad and they want change. Too many bad years. Unfortunately it was on Eli's day. Yet they felt strong enough boo. I think John Mara said he would have booed also. Now it's up to him to decide what direction he wants take. First what did he get for $150 million spent on free agents this year. Gettleman and Judge both signed off on all those deals. Not much IMHO. Judge got his players in free agency and through the draft. No more excuses for either one. I think John Mara has to be bold and get a coach like a Matt Rhule and a modern day GM to turn things around. The sooner the better.
 
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Patricia Traina

Administrator
Staff member
As you probably can tell I am and will also be a die-hard Giants fan. With that said the Giants are a very large business. Just like any other business that sells a product, for the Giants its football and everything that goes with it. Yesterday the customers expressed to the owner that the product is really bad and they want change. Too many bad years. Unfortunately it was on Eli's day. Yet they felt strong enough boo. I think John Mara said he would have booed also. Now it's up to him to decide what direction he wants take. First what did he get for $150 million spend on free agents by Gettleman and Judge who signed off on all those deals. Not much IMHO. Judge got his his players in free agency and through the draft. No more excuses for either one. I think John Mara has to be bold and get a coach like a Matt Rhule and a modern day GM to turn things around. The sooner the better.
To be fair, it's still early, and I think you can point to a handful of plays that had they been made, maybe the outcome might have been different. If I have time this week, I'll catalogue some of them.
 
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